| | 16.10.11 | Tagesspiegel (Berlin) | “There is no justice in all of Afghanistan” Interview conducted by Ingrid Müller | |
| “It’s not true that Taliban are against girls’ education” Taliban Fouzi Habibullah, a member of the High Peace Council, on mistakes at the reconstruction and the chances of negotiations | ||||
Tagesspiegel: The assassination of the head of the Peace Council has shattered the hope for progress. What will happen now?
Habibullah Fouzi: The death of Burhanuddin Rabbani is a very big loss. He was an extraordinary personality. Masoom Stanakzai, who was severely injured in the attack, will return from India in the coming days and report to the Executive Committee.
Tagesspiegel: How could the terrorist come into the house?
Fouzi: The two guests said they had an important message from Taliban leader Mullah Omar and the Quetta Shura (editor’s note: the highest decision making body of the Afghan Taliban, which takes its name from the Pakistani city of Quetta). Rabbani was very enthusiastic that he could make peace, and he wanted to achieve it personally. On this day, it should come a big step forward. The two had a CD and a letter from Mullah Omar with them. Masoom Stanakzai had checked that in advance.
Tagesspiegel: Witnesses say Mr. Stanakzai told the security people that they should not check both because they were well known.
Fouzi: That’s not true. On the contrary, he said they should be searched. But the controls are not effective in Rabbani’s house. There are no metal detectors, only pockets are searched there. The technology is not up to date, if we had it, the bomb in his turban would have been discovered. We now necessarily need metal detectors.
Tagesspiegel: How did the Quetta Shura and Mullah Omar react?
Fouzi: We do not know whether it was a conspiracy or whether the two really were emissaries of the Quetta Shura. They have neither confirmed nor denied it on their website.
Tagesspiegel: Mullah Omar and the Quetta Shura are considered to be the key, but so far they have refused to enter talks.
Fouzi: Mullah Omar is the spiritual leader of the Taliban, their Emir. In Islam, people must follow their Emir. Peace will only come with Mullah Omar. If Mullah Omar and the Quetta Shura come to the negotiating table, this will be a big step for the future.
Tagesspiegel: Why are they so important?
Fouzi: There is a huge distance between the population and the Afghan government. Usually a government helps its people. When the foreign troops arrived, the people had hoped that their basic needs would be met: food, education, work. But none of this has been met.
Tagesspiegel: Can you elaborate?
Fouzi: The people have more confidence in the foreign troops than in their own government. The government has nothing to say. There is a lot of money from abroad, but only ten percent of it goes to the Afghan government; most of it is spent by the NGOs in parallel. Everything is done by foreign troops. Over the entire ten years they have built no government, no defense, no interior no justice. In cities like Kabul, a lot has improved. But in the country, especially in the provinces where the Taliban are strong, there is poverty. First, these people have to get help, otherwise it is impossible to create peace.
Tagesspiegel: How do you imagine that?
Fouzi: A strong government would include all Afghans. But there is no government system that could guarantee security, peace, justice and labor. Look at the government: when a minister moves, all those responsible immediately move with him. None of them is interested in fighting for social rights or justice. There is no justice in all of Afghanistan. Not a single problem you can solve without corruption. People tell you they have to pay for it in the Ministry of Justice if they want to enforce a right already vested. How much money has flowed into Afghanistan, 70 billion? But where is peace? In some provinces you cannot even drive safely on the road. Where’s the money gone?
Tagesspiegel: What needs to change?
Fouzi: Seats must not be awarded to friends and by party affiliation, but on the abilities of the people. And it will not work out without negotiating with the Taliban. The government and the world must begin with it.
Tagesspiegel: After the attack, however, many think that these conversations are over before they have begun.
Fouzi: It would have been Rabbani’s desire to keep going. He had just hope for a big breakthrough. We must convince Pakistan to help with it. We have good relations. The international community should also ask Saudi Arabia to make use of its religious influence.
Tagesspiegel: What does help mean, military pressure or negotiations?
Fouzi: Pakistan will know how it can help and what is better for it.
Tagesspiegel: And then?
Fouzi: The world needs to get out of the way the obstacles for talks with the Taliban. They must stop the Taliban blacklist. Even I was on the list up till July, though I am a member of Peace Council. And there must be an address for the Taliban. Where it is that is not important, it is only necessary that there is a place where the Taliban enjoy immunity. Then they can come for talks. Peace is our religious obligation.
Tagesspiegel: At the moment, however, everything has stopped. What do you expect for the Afghanistan conference in Bonn in early December?
Fouzi: The conference is very important. The people pin high expectations on it. The biggest problem with the first conference in Bonn was that no Taliban were invited, only Northern Alliance members. Therefore we have today’s problems. The Taliban must come to Bonn, this time we need one of their representatives there.
Tagesspiegel: You do not believe that the Taliban will participate?
Fouzi: If we do not manage to bring the warring Taliban to the negotiations, others should be invited from Afghanistan. We have many important Taliban here. I can give you the names of five from the Peace Council, e.g. the former Deputy Minister of Higher Education, the former Taliban representative to the UN, myself. Nobody asked me. But if I was, I would come.
Tagesspiegel: And beyond the Council?
Fouzi: The former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, their foreign minister and their trade minister are important people. But unfortunately, none of them plays any significant role anymore, neither for the government nor for the people. Moreover, it is very easy to blame everything on the Taliban. We have a lot of problems, but the Taliban are blamed for all. There are also thieves and robbers, who hold the Taliban responsible for their actions. This is the reality. The international community has made mistakes as well. It has not tried to pave the way. Incidentally, the Germans might try to get Mullah Tayyab Agha to Bonn. He has already been to Germany for talks and he is very close to Mullah Omar.
Tagesspiegel: The Germans are hosting the conference, it lies in the hands of the Afghan government of President Karzai.
Fouzi: In Afghanistan, there is a joke: A man comes into the house of his host. He is asked: Do you want rice or meat? He replies: Don’t you have two pots that you can cook both?
Tagesspiegel: Many people think that the Peace Council with all its former warlords is even closer to war than to peace.
Fouzi: We should not point to single people. The Afghans want peace, we do help in the process. As long as there is no peace, there is no decent life.
Tagesspiegel: Do the Taliban want peace?
Fouzi: Without hearing them, we do not know what they want. They need to be at the negotiating table.
Tagesspiegel: Many people fear that the Taliban want to ban education for girls again.
Fouzi: It is not true that Taliban are against girls’ education. This is a misunderstanding. In Islam, education is important for everyone. The first word in the Koran is ecra - read! The Taliban only don’t want a mixed education of girls and boys. Moreover, the Taliban have changed.
Tagesspiegel: Therefore, they could join the government?
Fouzi: We don't have to hand over the whole government to them, do we? But they could compete in elections. We need the Taliban for peace.
Habibullah Fouzi is a leading member of the High Council of Peace in Afghanistan. This body established by President Hamid Karzai in 2010 shall advance the peace process and establish contacts with senior Taliban leaders. The head of the Council, former President Burhanuddin Rabbani, was murdered in his house by a suicide bomber a few weeks ago. Fouzi Habibullah, who was ambassador to Saudi Arabia
Article comes with picture: “Protests after the assassination of former President Rabbani. It would have been his desire to continue to negotiate with Taliban, says Fouzi” (http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/es-gibt-in-ganz-afghanistan-keine-gerechtigkeit/5071662.html).
